Reasoning is, Kill healers first, kill clothies first. Pets have low health so die quickly, one healer can be locked down while the other is killed (clothie or leather). The Rogue & Warrior do very high damage, so need to be taken out early. Then finish off the other healer. In general, the range are more of a danger to the raid, since the melee need to move towards their target and can be picked up.
Dispels (purge, spellsteal, etc) are KEY to this fight. Being able to lock down the 2nd healer when the focus target is below 40% health is the second key.
This is NOT a tank & spank fight. DPS RUN YOUR REARENDS off! Kite, kite, kite, run, run, run.
If their healers are dead, and we still have healers alive, we win.
-You should be aware that the NPCs will use most if not all of their class respective spells, especially crowd control ones. Examples are Blind, Entangling Roots, Cyclone, Wyvern Sting, Sheep and Fears (including AoE fears).
- The paladins will use Hand of Sacrifice and Divine Shield. Have a priest keep mass dispel ready.
- The moonkin will use Treants on cooldown.
- The Warrior will use Bladestorm. If at all possible, stay away from him as best as you can, especially as a cloth wearer. He also breaks fears and uses Intimidating Shout.
- The rogue will randomly focus on a target and burst it down while keeping wounding poison on. Its target will need extra healing.
- The death knight uses chains of ice, Army of the Dead and Death Grip.
- Killing the shaman's totems is incredibly helpful.
- The warlock favors casting Unstable Affliction which should be interrupted whenever possible. He also casts Curse of Agony and Corruption and Fear. Lots of fear.
- The shadow Priest favors casting Vampiric Touch, Shadow Word: Pain and even uses Dispersion when targetted.
- Any NPC that can dispel will dispel.
-- "More threat gives you more free time to take another bite of your sandwich, or pour another shot."
Quoted for truth. Our CC needs to be top notch because the NPC's will dispel them.
Sap, followed by Hex, followed by cyclone is useful.
Sheep and fear has diminishing returns, so cyclone after the sheeps is useful as well. Or rotating between sheeps and fears on a target. DPS can work those out.
Priests / warlocks/ warriors should AOE fear at appropirate times.
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Jesus could walk on water and self rez. So? My shaman can too.
On the first attempt at Faction Champions, the rogue shadowstepped and 2 shotted me. On the second attempt I became the death knights play toy. He let me live a bit longer...but only to laugh at my uselessness under his control.
Here's an offline guide I found, but it really doesn't give much insight as to how, a clothie healer is supposed to survive.
1) Start by deciding which team member you’re going to take out, and target your entire party on that one. Use crowd control tactics on the others until the one you’re working on dies. As with all PvP arena strategies, always take out the healers first. 2) Make sure you take out the healing shaman (Not the melee shaman) first. Thrakgar and Shaamul spam the heals almost non-stop, so once this character is out of the fight, things will get slightly easier. 3) Take out your melee DPS characters after the healers. The rogue may be easiest to kill because he wears leather. 4) The warrior should also be one of the first ones you take out after the healers. His combination of stunning abilities and high DPS makes him very dangerous. 5) Also watch out for several of the Faction Champions to gang up on one of your party members. 6) The Faction Champions cannot be mind controlled. 7) Don’t clump together. Make the Faction Champions move around a lot to target various party members. 8) Assign two party members to do distractions. They should help keep the healers alive, especially calling out when the Faction Champions are all targeting one of the healers at once.
If more than one faction champion targets me, I probably won't be alive many seconds after that.
I was in a pug for this in 25s on Thrall realm and we got this fight down in just one attempt.
A few things they did differently was as follows:
1) No cc was used when we burned down the enemy first healer. All dps with few exceptions were going all out on the kill target. All cooldowns and bloodlust were used right off the bat. Basically, cc is dispelling the enemy spells and rooting, slowing, fearing the melee.
The exception here were 2 warlocks casting banish on the tree druid (but still dpsing the kill target) and one rogue and one warrior who were keeping the healing pally locked down.
2) Second kill was the rogue (or substitute another high dps melee)
3) 3rd kill was the 2nd healer (druid).
4) Tank specced DK, rather than dpsing the kill targets, would stand with the healers and help keep the melee chained or use deathgrip to help keep them off the healers and clothies.
5) Pally healer had a rogue and warrior on him the whole time to keep it from casting heals. This was not a priority kill target.
6) After 2 healers and the rogue were killed, then we started using cc. The fight is much easier at this point assuming we have enough people still alive.
7) The pull was done by having the rogue assigned to lock down the holy pally sap the enemy rogue, followed by a dk deathgripping the first healer target to us. The warrior assigned to lock down the holy pally charged in and used his aoe fear.
Hopefully we will get lucky and have the pally healer as one of their healers. Throw a rogue and another melee on him that can interrupt and he's a non issue. Burning down the first healer is the toughest part to this fight.
Also, healers should be standing with the hunters and shaman to be with the frost traps and earth bind totems, which should be down. mages frost nova, warlocks, priests fear etc... Basically this is a fight where you gotta do a lot of healing and dispelling on the run.
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Jesus could walk on water and self rez. So? My shaman can too.
I have found very little on-line of any real substance. Anyways, after reading over a number of posts this is kinda where I'm at right now.
Getting a healer away from the main group, or at least away from the other healers should be the first thing done. I think using a death knights (death grip?) ability would do that. Even chaining two death gripsto fling a champion to the other side of the arena might be better (assuming we have 2 dks).
So I looked at how long it would take to kill something with roughly 2M hp, doing 4 kdps. With 5 dps at that rate it takes 100 seconds, with 10 people, 50 seconds, with 15 people 33.3 seconds, with 20 people 25 seconds. It doesn't seem practical to use more than 15 dps plus one tank to do this, so we are looking at keeping 9 other participants occupied for at least 35 seconds with roughly 9 people (8 if you want a healer on the kill group).
Do we need a higher kill rate to do this? At 5 kdps, 5p=80sec, 10p=40sec, 15p=26.7sec. At 6 kdps, 5p=66.7sec, 10p=33.3sec, and 15p=22.2sec.
To occupy the other 9 players, I'm thinking everyone with some form of cc stack on top of each other to look like one player, so when the fear, ice or stuns wear off the remaining champions rush that stacked unit and we pop another 1-2 fears/novas or whatever. To me it would seem easier to control the crowd if they had effectively one target to run at...hoping that target is far enough away from the kill group. Then as someone is downed the kill group can come and pick another one off.
Why are spread-out formations recommended for the faction champions? When everyone is in a discombobulated mess, it's hard to tell what the hell is going on, let alone hit the right people with mass dispels. I haven't seen the champions use AOE...maybe its cause we are spread out, maybe it's not really in their arsenal. Blizzard likely only programmed a set number of attacks/heals and not the full arsenal availabe to players.
I think grouping people in poles at either end of the arena would be greater benefit than mass chaos. If you are assembled in poles, the champions need to travel a fair distance to engage someone from an opposite pole...time they aren't killing somebody. For simplicity, I'll call one pole the near pole and one pole the far pole. As a champion travels from the near pole to the far pole, some ranged player from the near pole will hit him until he gains aggro, forcing the champion to walk back to the near pole. Once the champion is progressing back to the near pole, a ranged from the far pole can begin slamming him, until he turns his attention back to the far pole. I also think cc is easier to implement when done from a pole formation.
In pvp I often play a healer role and I rarely use pvp gear. If I try to engage at melee range or in mass chaos, I end up dead...usually rather quickly. When theres a group about 30/40 yards in front of me engaging the enemy I almost never die and neither do the majority of players in that group, while I am up. The enemy must transverse 30/40 yards to get me, while those beating on are getting healed and slowing the heck out of him. Typically, when that happens in battlegrounds the horde almost always wins. When everyone is going off running around doing uncordinated things...the horde typically loses.
Well, ranged should be somewhat close to each other. Those frost traps and earthbind totems are useless otherwise.
I think he is saying to not stack too tight because the warlock's hellfire will take out anyone next to it as well as the warrior's bladestorm. Hellfire seems to be more of an issue for melee, but the warrior usually runs after the healers/dispellers. Either of those AOE effects will kill you if you don't realize you are in them the instant they start using those abilities.
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Jesus could walk on water and self rez. So? My shaman can too.
"First of all, as a warrior you should not be fury on this fight at all.
Second (Subject to group comp): What I noticed worked best in GRD was that having a warrior charge in and fearbomb after the initial trap pull gave our people enough time to get their CCs up.
Third: If you are getting focused don't be afraid to go defensive sword and board although I never did. Also if you are being focused by Melee pop retaliation if its more than 1 on you. The attack does not suffer from the 75% less AoE damage debuff.
Forth: Keep an eye on your squishies, especially the ones that provide you with lil green numbers on your screen. Intervening a healer and tossing a disarm on the warrior or ret paladin focusing does mitigate some damage.
Fifth: Unless you are extremely low on interupts, you should not be worried about interupting except in specific cases. You are better off just zerging something down unless you know, that silly warlock comes over to hellfire.
Sixth: Remember Demoralizing Shout does no damage, so feel free to use it whenever there are melee in shout range.
Seventh: You probably do NOT want to use recklessness during the initial burndown phases (at least in 10m) as if you get focused by 2 or more people you will quickly inspecting the floor again."
This was taken from a strat I found on the web. Sadly I am not Arms spec, as I rarely PVP. Putting that together at zero hour might be tough (I just happened upon this info...)
Biz
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You gonna hit back, or are you just gonna stand there and bleed? - Wyatt Earp
- You avoid mass damage from Hellfire and Bladestorm. - You avoid everyone getting dispeled from the bad guys mass Dispels and/or hit by thier totems. - You can actually see if a bad guy is running towards YOU, and not just towards SOMEONE in your group. - You can see...anything besides color explosions on your screen. Like the friggin Rogue shoving daggers up your ass. So then you can Fear or Fade, or run, instead of wasting time healing yourself instead of someone else or dispeling crap.
Each person has the damage from the Top 5 things that hurt them. 'Other' is everything else.
It appears that a lot of this damage is avoidable. Dispels should reduce CoA, Corruption, and especially Thorns. (and we should see an increase in Unstable Afflic damage) Melee damage on the healers and ranged needs to come down. Hellfire damage needs to come down.
Just a few more tweaks, and we'll have this on farm.
I think I could be more effective healing if people ranged in a particular area of the arena. There were dozens of times when I would go to heal someone and/or be in the process of healing them when they moved out of my range/canceling the spell. Rogues and Dps Warriors were notorious for that, and they always died shortly after they missed my heal.
just had some thoughts on the fight based on observations. If they are helpful in any way, then it was worth posting.
First and most important-tank spot, other online guides, and video's are based on THERE raid composition and strengths, they are not a guideline to the IWIN button. There kill orders are not THE kill orders...I have completed this fight 4 times, and not one of those times did any of the guides give us the help we needed....you have to base your tactics on YOUR raid group...
after what i have observed so far, i would say the best bet for success, and not just a first target kill would be the holy paladin. 3 reasons-1. the paladin has the biggest heals and is the most dangerous healer to have alive, although easy to lock down, the rogue warrior combo would have just as much success on the priest, with the rogue kicking the bulk of priest heals, and stunning through others, and the warrior being the (fear proof) toon that kicks in that case.."yes, a fury warrior, not arms" 2. the paladin destroy's any chance at using any CC.. 3. the paladin has the highest armor rateing, and is tougher then the priest, therefore blowing all cooldowns, and bloodlust would be more helpful on the thicker target, with the priest being more squishy and easier to kill as 2nd target without all the dmg bonus from cooldowns. An arms warrior will be needed on the pally with SHATTERING THROW at the ready for the..1.5sec cast that can possibly be deliveded a little faster then a MD.
Kill the priest second...sending the rogue used to lock her down to help with the druid if needed. make sure everyone stays spread out in this part...or the warrior might just be dineing in...
Keep the druid locked down as best as possible at least until the priest is down, once the priest is down, the druids large heals are the extent of your worry, as the kill target can easily be purged and there h.o.t.s removed...
after the pally, priest are down...i would look to the warrior, as he poses the biggest threat to the raid, not the rogue.....the rogue is a nasty little man, but he's very dangerous on a Single target.....with the warrior, all it takes is a charge, fear, bladestorm, and half the raid just kissed there ass goodbye...
Ranged, at this point...if you see ANY of there dps just setting back unloading...throw a cc at it....it may only hold for a few sec, but thats a few seconds that could save your fellow raiders life....
as far as dealing with the rogue....there is no one better for this job then the Prot warrior, shock stun, concussion stun, bleed effects, and a nice charge for those shadow steps, there is no one that can lock the rogue up any better
once the warrior goes down, target should be based on priority....if the rogue tank is haveing troubles....move to the rogue, if the dk tank is haveing troubles, move to the dk.....once a tank target is down....as in, rogue, warrior, dk, the person who has been annoying that target should move to another target to annoy.....mainly the hance shammy, hunter, and lock, or sp.....the hunter is by far the most dangerous of the 4 dps left, cause he is quite content to set back and punish your healers...multi shot the melee, and just cause as much havoc as he can manage, but if someone is in his face, he will go into survival mode..
targets after this point should be based on which is causeing the most problem at the time....
20% of this fight is planning and prep., 80% of this fight is how you react when things dont go as planned....
these are just a few thoughts i had today going back over the fight, and evaluating different positions...i know i go against alot of the things that you may find in guides and videos, but i've never been one to follow the guidelines..
ask me sometime how we decided to kill yogg....its rather funny, and (outside the box)
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yea my intellect may be 30...but ya dont have to be smart to swing a big stick
With as many melee as we have historically run with, we've always needed to adjust strats to suit us. I remember our first Void Reaver kill. 9well maybe it wasn't the first, but it sure was the easiest), where we had 2 hunters running around the circle and everyone else in melee range. We just did something similar on Kolo-10 this week, btw ;p
irst and most important-tank spot, other online guides, and video's are based on THERE raid composition and strengths, they are not a guideline to the IWIN button. There kill orders are not THE kill orders...I have completed this fight 4 times, and not one of those times did any of the guides give us the help we needed....you have to base your tactics on YOUR raid group...
We do not follow any one guide/video blindly however when attempting new content its important in my opinion to view as much information concerning the new fight. After we have all gotten our "feet wet" then we can see what is working and then make changes as needed. This is a new fight for 98% of the guild so it will take some trail and error until we find our groove.
i apologize if i worded that phrase wrong....it wasnt directed at anyone or anything...and i know very well how they are very useful tools for information...the main point of the statement was that every raid is different, and that every attempt at this fight is also different..
again i apologize if my post was taken the wrong way, it was in reference to the fact that the fight has no real mechanics to work with and that everyone views it differently
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yea my intellect may be 30...but ya dont have to be smart to swing a big stick
It's all good Faeo. You don't know how we operate yet.
When I read Rip's post about using a WoWWiki strat, i just laughed. One, it's WoWWiki, and two, well.. 'nuf said. lol
edit: hmm.. i just read the way that sounded... yeah umm... I'm sure Rip didn't mean that we would do exactly what WoWWiki said, but just to use it to get everyone on the same page before we had our discussions.
WoWWiki = laughable Rip = the boss man ;p (so no laughing AT him)
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